Iran versus Saudi Arabia: quite. (But Saudi Arabia will never, ever be named a "rogue nation", or a member of the "axis of evil", even if, say, footage of every genuinenly influential prince in the House of Saud personally attending a stoning would be broadcast on CNN, and we all know why.)
Quite. The frustrating thing about it is that disentangling ourselves from the House of Saud is, I suspect, a very popular concept in the States. And had been for some time, but discussing it is under the code of Omerta. It's what 'ending our dependence on foreign oil' used to be code for at any rate. (Whereas remarkably, I think 'end our dependence on foreign oil' means just that now.)
The most famous example of "our man in x, right or wrong" would be Saddam Hussein, wouldn't it? I seem to recall our papers quoting Rumsfeld (back when he was in the Reagan administration) re: Saddam during the Iran/Iraq-War and the use of poison gas, "he may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch". (Though I've also seen that quote attributed to Alexander Hague about Noriega.)
That phrase goes back far in American history. I'd not be surprised to see it sourced back to Korea or Vietnam. But yes, yes he was. We're also somewhat responsible for the Taliban, having funded them via our client state Pakistan for at least a decade. (Bringing in the other thread, it was covered by Aaron Sorkin in 'Charlie Wilson's War', a film I thought quite good.)
On the brighter side: I really think there is a lot of potential for change here. Not overnight, but the fact that Americans would vote for a man who had a Muslim father, spent his first decade in a Muslim country like Indonesia and had "Hussein" as his middle name really left an impression [...]
I hope so. It goes to show you that the American dream is not dead. Let's not forget, there was a vigorous group of people who came to support Rep. Keith Ellison using Thomas Jefferson's Quran when he was sworn in. (Indiana elected Andre Carson to Congress last week, who is a convert, so as of January there will be a Muslim-American caucus of sorts. How about that?) Michigan also elected the first Muslim Woman (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iuocXjraXq3ogYlUpdrfygI-Kp_AD949OREG4) to serve in the State Legislature. And Colin Powell famously spoke up last week about Muslim-American servicemen -- the army is still the great equalizer for Americans.
I also think it does help that Obama is black, in regards to Islam. In America, at least until 9/11 sort of forced Middle America to pay attention, the most people knew about Islam came from black Americans who converted in the late 60s and 70s. At the very least, black Muslims are viewed as sort of quaint and homegrown and only threatening if you're still threatened by Malcolm X. Sort of like being named by hippies.
no subject
Quite. The frustrating thing about it is that disentangling ourselves from the House of Saud is, I suspect, a very popular concept in the States. And had been for some time, but discussing it is under the code of Omerta. It's what 'ending our dependence on foreign oil' used to be code for at any rate. (Whereas remarkably, I think 'end our dependence on foreign oil' means just that now.)
The most famous example of "our man in x, right or wrong" would be Saddam Hussein, wouldn't it? I seem to recall our papers quoting Rumsfeld (back when he was in the Reagan administration) re: Saddam during the Iran/Iraq-War and the use of poison gas, "he may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch". (Though I've also seen that quote attributed to Alexander Hague about Noriega.)
That phrase goes back far in American history. I'd not be surprised to see it sourced back to Korea or Vietnam. But yes, yes he was. We're also somewhat responsible for the Taliban, having funded them via our client state Pakistan for at least a decade. (Bringing in the other thread, it was covered by Aaron Sorkin in 'Charlie Wilson's War', a film I thought quite good.)
On the brighter side: I really think there is a lot of potential for change here. Not overnight, but the fact that Americans would vote for a man who had a Muslim father, spent his first decade in a Muslim country like Indonesia and had "Hussein" as his middle name really left an impression [...]
I hope so. It goes to show you that the American dream is not dead. Let's not forget, there was a vigorous group of people who came to support Rep. Keith Ellison using Thomas Jefferson's Quran when he was sworn in. (Indiana elected Andre Carson to Congress last week, who is a convert, so as of January there will be a Muslim-American caucus of sorts. How about that?) Michigan also elected the first Muslim Woman (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iuocXjraXq3ogYlUpdrfygI-Kp_AD949OREG4) to serve in the State Legislature. And Colin Powell famously spoke up last week about Muslim-American servicemen -- the army is still the great equalizer for Americans.
I also think it does help that Obama is black, in regards to Islam. In America, at least until 9/11 sort of forced Middle America to pay attention, the most people knew about Islam came from black Americans who converted in the late 60s and 70s. At the very least, black Muslims are viewed as sort of quaint and homegrown and only threatening if you're still threatened by Malcolm X. Sort of like being named by hippies.