A Discussion on Reinventing MUSHing:

[skywaterblue]

Last night, Ide @ WORA discovered this Kickstarter project, 'The Written Word' which "[...]is a multiplayer storytelling game which lives on the internet."

Your first thought may be mine: those already exist, and have for thirty years. We call them MUSHes.

The project proposal goes on: "Well, Massively Multiplayer Write ‘em up is a pretty new genre, But it also picks up on a bunch of stuff you probably understand already.

You might have heard of text adventures - they call them Interactive Fiction now. Even if you’re not as geeky as us don’t worry - basically you’re going to be taking it in turns to tell a story."

So naturally, I was kind of pissed. We've seen this kind of co-opted male-washing of female fandom activities before, where a primarily male-led team charges in to find a business model making money by ripping off the work of female-led fandom. I kicked it to my Facebook and Twitter accounts, where I know lots of female fen outside of MU*ing circles and those who are current/former players. Most seemed to agree with my sentiment and picked up on other disturbing signs.

Here, then, is a complete copy of the private discussion I've been having with Simon of 'The Written Word'.



**SKYWATERBLUE**

You might be interested to know that this has existed for 30+ years and we call it "MUSHing". Not only are there about five actively maintained codebases for the servers, but there's easily several hundred games.

Here are some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSH
http://wora.netlosers.com/
http://pennmush.org/
https://github.com/lynnfaraday/MUSH

I could basically set up what you're planning using existing technology for twenty bucks. Also, people are making fun of you on WORA. You need to do some more research before you launch projects - I am NOT going to support 18+ flipping grand to reinvent the wheel.

**SIMON @ THE WRITTEN WORD**

Hi (my real name)

Thanks for writing to us - I’d like to take a little time in replying to you, because I am aware of MUSH’s and I do earnestly believe that you have misunderstood what we are aiming to offer.

I’ve been RPing online since I’ve been old enough to have a decent stab at writing - though I’m a little young perhaps for MUD’s and MUSH I’ve played around on them. Actually the first program I ever wrote was a text adventure in BASIC. I feel like I’ve earned my geek credentials, though there is always, always more to learn.

You’re right to say that a portion of the game we are making is reflected in some software now long in the tooth - but I would say that it only accounts for a very small part of the total experience we aim to offer.

When we say we’re looking to create something akin to an Interactive Fiction MMO what we mean is - every story you create will have a shared existence, in a world that is persistent. You’ll be able to play through your stories with other characters which have a real existence in our world, or playing as a character you will have the opportunity to slowly explore a massive world filled with endlessly novel content. We’re building an interface which brings all of these experiences together into one seamless, easy - and free - to use experience. We’re going to be offering our players everything from long-term character development in the form of traits and force points, to extensive and flexible story creation tools - our most recent story creation play test produced great strong short story frames with people completely un-prepped in 15 minutes.

It’s a shame that you see what we are doing as re-inventing the wheel - my hope in designing this tool was always that people who already are invested in other systems would find somewhere to bring their projects which would support the way they wanted to play while giving all the stories that are produced some persistence and audience. I’d love to talk more with you about how to make that happen.

One last thing - I couldn't find anyone discussing us on WORA, could you throw me a link? I’d love to jump in and talk about this stuff with people.

All the best,
Simon.

**SKYWATERBLUE**

Not only do I think you're re-inventing the wheel, I think the way this pitch is written is pretty offensive to the founders of the MU*ing community as well as those currently in it, and a great deal of the people who I've shown it to feel the same way. (Several of the women I've shown it to have taken particular offense to the description of 'slash' as something to be avoided. This combined with the fact that no mention is made of the historical past of text based RPG servers online made several comment that it feels like an effort to male-wash a group where women have traditionally played an equal role in history/development.)

What you're pitching me as different - an Interactive Fiction MMO - is essentially NO DIFFERENT from what hundreds of people currently do as their day to day hobby. MUDs are, in fact, the ancestors of MMOs. They were called graphic MUDs at first.

I think if you had pitched this as development for a new type of MU* server, I would feel less pissed off about your project. I also think your project could really benefit from learning more about MU*ing - some of what we do as a community is in desperate need of fixing, but a lot of it is learned behavior from 30 years of history.

The thread is here: http://wora.netlosers.com/index.php...

**SIMON @ THE WRITTEN WORD**

Hi (my real name),

You're right about the use of 'slash' as something negative - it's a response to a question I was asked - I've removed any specific reference to slash in that FAQ. The answer given remains true - we can't place ourselves as content judges, we only aim to provide a platform for people to write. I think the question was more concerned with young people interacting with adult content then anything else.

With Regards to male-washing - it couldn't be further from our goals. I would love your assistance in helping us to more clearly communicate that fact.

The fact that hundreds of people work hard to create these amazing experiences for their hobby is exactly what has inspired me to create The Written World. My hope is that we can provide for them an awesome tool and a great place to engage in that hobby. I've yet to see anything out there that offers the features we are building, in order to support and expand that community, not usurp it.

I would like to open the conversation on WORA by publishing this conversation there - but I am asking your permission to do that first.

Best,
Simon.

** SKYWATERBLUE **

I am not that interested in having the exact details of our conversation repasted on WORA. In part, because I will choose to speak for myself with my own username there, which carries a bit more weight.

I also don't think WORA is necessarily the forum you should be looking at to discuss the historical/gender issues I feel are involved in this project proposal as it stands. I would rather repost our discussion on my Dreamwidth and invite the people I was discussing it with elsewhere into that thread. I feel that many of the people who would like to comment would not feel comfortable doing so on WORA, which can be overly hostile (to everyone).

** SIMON @ THE WRITTEN WORD **

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The Written World
Tuesday Dec 20, 10:18am PST

Hi (my real name),

OK: I will post just my part of our discussion then, with reference to the fact that you contacted me. What is your username there?

I'm happy for you to post this on your Dreamwidth, but I ask that if you are going to quote me you do so in full, and within the full context of your own comments. What is the url of your page on Dreamwidth?

I also would still love any advice you can offer on more clearly expressing our intent to be egalitarian on our project page - and specifically where we currently fail to do so, or seem to say the opposite!

Thanks,
Simon.

** SKYWATERBLUE **

That's no problem.

My name there, as here, is skywaterblue. skywaterblue.dreamwidth.org.



He's not an unreasonable spokesperson for his project. My concerns remain that he and his group are deliberately writing their Kickstarter goal without addressing the fact that his project firmly exists within a continuity of activities that stretch back to the earliest days of the Internet while presenting itself as something revolutionary. I find it troubling (but not surprising) to learn that he is aware of MU*ing but chose not to mention it even in passing in the project proposal, and I think there's an unpleasant whiff of Internet gender bias in that presentation. I still believe that Simon believes his project is somehow fundamentally different from what it appears to be for me - a new flavor of MU* server.

While I don't object to people turning their hobbies into paying gigs, and support Kickstarter as a great way to finally harness the power of the Internet to do that, I feel like 18,000 dollars is awfully steep.

Simon's promised to check in on this post and address concerns you want to raise. I promise to be a dutiful minder of the discussion and step in if things seem to turn south.

Your turn, ladies! (And gents!)

EDIT: To fix the initial reporter on WORA, and to remove my real name.

Comments

[caltha]

Wandering in from the ether (or rather someone's friend's friend's reading list) --

We’re going to be offering our players everything from long-term character development in the form of traits and force points

That, um. That's every MUD I've ever played. Like, literally, I have never played a MUD/MUSH/RPI where one did not have character growth and gradual skill building and stats/traits and exp/roleplaying experience/what have you. That's my favorite thing about MUDs, the interactive storyline part. I've had characters for years IRL who had relationships and friendships and were involved in battles and ridiculous plots and kept getting promoted into positions of power I had no actual interest in roleplaying.

Maybe this guy is only thinking of battle spam MUDs and has never seen one with interactive storytelling? Although, er, even the battle spam MUDs tend to make a pretense at storytelling.

Further reading/resource suggestions for guy:

General info on MUDs/MUSHes/whatever available with forums and database searching:
http://www.topmudsites.com/
http://www.mudconnect.com/

An explanation of roleplay points, which sound pretty much exactly like force points:
http://www.middle-earth.us/wiki/index.php/Roleplay_Points
(Disclaimer: I've never played Shadows of Isildur, but their FAQ was the clearest I found)

See also: 30 years of academic scholarship, sociological research, geeky internal timeline keeping, etc.

I'm genuinely confused what a $20k project would add to the table!

[skywaterblue]

Thanks for stopping in, this is a really (from my perspective) helpful post.

I know there are some scholarly books on MUD/MUSHes, granted about fifteen years old at this point. Maybe we should dig into it? One of my other points I hope to address at OTW, is that maybe we (as an aspect of fandom, or a community with close ties) need to start bridging the gap and documenting this history.

[caltha]

This sounds kind of ridiculous in retrospect, but I've never actually thought of MU*ing as a fannish activity. persephoneflame's post below kind of smacked me in the forehead with, yes, of course, spending weeks/months of devoted personal time creating a big fictional playground (usually) free for everyone with no recompense is very much a fannish kind of mentality, but because I've never played universe tie-in games like PernMUSH or Shadows of Isildur my brain totally never made that connection.

In terms of history/scholarship, my campus library has an awesome selection of completely outdated books on internet sociology/cognitive effects/ethics/etc. which include such great examinations of creative online activities like MU*ing that I've been ruined for a lot of more recent stuff. (There's this very sudden jump in scholarship from "look at all these weird creative anonymous communities!" to "whoa hey Generation MySpace!", with the former giving way almost completely to the latter by the early 2000's. This depresses me to no end.)

Sherry Turkle's Life on the Screen is a justified classic, and has a lot about identity formation and gender play and the psycho/sociological possibilities inherent in roleplaying, and Rheingold's chapter on MUDing/MUSHing in his '93 The Virtual Community is a great overview of MUDing and the scholarship available at the time, referencing everyone from Turkle to Henry Jenkins, but is less focused on purely RP games.

In my experience I've seen a demographic lean toward male players in combat-heavy roleplay-light games, and toward female players in roleplay-heavy games (regardless of their combat content). I'm really interested to see MU*ing being talked about as a largely female activity, because it's one of the few mediums I still interact with where being openly female is almost always problematic for me. Most female RPers I know have at least experimented with presenting themselves as male OOC to cut down on harassment. (This is definitely mitigated in female-run games, though.)

I don't mean to be diverging from topic, I'm just so fascinated to see this stuff being discussed. The Written World project kicks me in the teeth in the same way that a lot of Web 2.0 rhetoric does -- no, this isn't new, we've always been here, we've always hung out in spaces like these being creative and looked down on for it, and to erase our history to talk about The Great Coming Glory of the Brand New Interwebs is just utterly disheartening and frustrating.

[skywaterblue]

He replied below.

[caltha]

Thanks for the poke!

[persephoneflame]

I want to establish my comment in context: a) I was one of the people really angry last night, b) I'm a professional game developer who works in the online, continuous-content space.

The project and project description rubs me the wrong way for a couple of reasons: the lack of reference to the history and context of text-based roleplaying (which seems a huge lack if you're going to mention IF) and the sneering attitude towards the fan communities that built those games and communities.

By failing to mention the historical context of what the project is doing, the creators appear to be deliberately removing reference to fan-run, fan-created, and primarily (at least in recent history) female-dominated communities and games. This is not unusual in the game industry, as female-creations are seen as 'less than' male creations, and it has a long history in fandom going back to the Trekkie vs Trekker fan distinction. We, as a community, are reacting to a history of having our work 'male-washed' (as Tori says): repackaged and presented as a commercial product, eliminating credit for our work, the safe-space gift culture we've worked hard to maintain, and respect for us as creators.

Including fan-denegrating questions on the FAQ list ('slash and other *bad* content') further emphasizes the distinction between fan-creations as 'crazy female' territory and your project as 'serious game business', which feels, quite frankly, demeaning.

So, with that context, we look at the 18k price tag and think 'look, someone is going to take what we could do for free, and have done for free, and ask for a huge amount of money for it while disrespecting us and acting like we never existed.' Thus the anger.

Now, from a game developer standpoint, 18k is not very much money. Quite frankly, I think it's not enough money to do the project as outlined on Kickstarter, even if the project is starting with MOO or MUSH as a base (which is insane for several reasons, tbh). Creating the baseline content for a storytelling RPG involves hours and hours and hours of work-- I'd say six weeks of fulltime work for one person, with another person onboard to do the coding and possibly another to do admin work. It's certainly not enough money to develop and market something you want to be commercially successful. Possibly it's enough for a prototype that you take out to get more funding. Or maybe it's the amount of money you and your partners need to pay rent for two months while you dedicate your life to this, if that's the case, bill it as a fan project, embrace fandom, and call it what it is: a MU* with a better interface you hope to market to a wider audience, or a prototype.

Mostly, though, please don't fall into the sneering video game industry trap of putting down female fans. In this case, we're likely to be your playerbase, and we're thoughtful and aware of gender issues. We're also quite capable of mobilizing to create our own versions of tools when it turns out the creators of those tools don't support us. (Dreamwidth is one such project, actually.)

*My apologies if this is a bit disjointed, I'm actually dealing with a fire drill at work at the moment (per usual), but think this issue is important enough to respond immediately.

[skywaterblue]

Given that TinyMUSH, Atlantis and SimpleMU have been project run and managed by women for decades, we're not only quite capable, we've already done it. I bow to your experience in professional gaming as to the cost. It still strikes me as quite high, but I'm undoubtedly missing factors here.

[persephoneflame]

Once you make something a commercial project, you have to pay people wages to do the work. So say it takes 6 weeks to set up a MU* if you're working on it full time with two other people (since I'd say it takes roughly 3-6 months calendar time, if you're volunteering your time & earning your money elsewhere). The average outsource studio charges $75-100 an hour, which is roughly analogous to hiring a skill person in California on payroll, plus then you have to throw in another $75-100/hr to manage them. Let's assume in this case your outsource studio is full-service and you, as the project owner, will do the management (which is a rookie mistake). So, $75-100 an hour for 6 weeks for 3 people, which is 720 hours of work, which means you're looking at $54-72k just for development of the content & custom code.

Then you add on server costs, marketing, promotions, user-acquisition, testing, and you're looking at $100k just to get to launch day.

This is where fandom really consistently undervalues itself. I make roughly $60 an hour *salary* plus bonus, vacation, healthcare, etc to do less work than I did running a MU* (because my job here is management + production, not management, production, community management, user acquisition, content development, and coding).

[persephoneflame]

Oh, note that my estimates above account for people making a living wage, not people in a startup environment doing it for 'the love of the project' or 'equity' plus a subsistence (rent & ramen) check.

18k is probably enough to throw up some AdSense ads, a few banners on other web games, pay for an EC2 instance and a domain, and feed/house 4 people for two months if they have roommates/partners/family who are helping them while they donate all of their time to the development and content development aspects.

[skywaterblue]

He replied below.

[pauraque]

Thanks for this post. I don't have anything to add right now but I'm watching with interest, and I certainly agree with you that this is problematic.

Hello

[simon_fox]

Hi Everyone.

Skywaterblue - thanks for posting this up.

It appears I have a lot to learn. Our issues putting this game together, and it's a set of ideas years in the forming, have been around 'will it be fun to play', 'what will the experience of putting stories together be', 'how can we encourage good storytelling in a play experience' and so on. The original birth of the system was as something to support world-building in a writing group I used to run - which contained as many women as men. The issue of gender has literally never come up. We have had women and men alike test the game - both genders have enjoyed it, and that is as far as we have gone in considering this.

With regards to similarities between our system and MU* systems - well absolutely these things fall into the same category of story writing games. I think what we are offering is quite different - it’s got similarities to IF but it’s not a GO NORTH GET LAMP kind of thing, our stories are split into chapters and encounters rather than rooms and objects.

Our living world consists of (hopefully) hundreds of different realities and stories co-existing in flux with each other. A story becomes an instance in an world populated by a great variety of writers. Someone compared this to SKOTOS over on WORA - I think you’ll find it to be a very different experience to that. Part of that is building something designed to appeal to a wider audience - something a little easier to use. We think we’ve built something that will crucially be a different story-telling experience to MUSH - but I guess only time and more testing will tell for sure.


With that said:

Caltha:
No doubt all the individual ideas we are offering have been put into place somewhere before - we're hoping we put them together in a novel way that's a lot of fun to play with. Thanks for the links. In terms of scholarly books on the topic - I’d love to hear any recommendations. I’ve been lucky enough to see Sherry Turkle talk on issues surrounding technology but I’ve not read Life on the screen, I will seek it out.

I’m genuinely sorry that our approach to communicating our project disheartens or frustrates. It’s not been our intention to suggest that this is the only way to be creative on the internet. I couldn’t be further from looking down on this kind of activity - the idea that this project connotes that attitude - well clearly we are failing somewhere. How can we do better?

Persephoneflame:
Again, the idea that the way we are communicating is sneering at fan communities can only mean we are entirely failing somewhere. Is there a way we can improve? I’d love to put together an update communicating about these issues.

Our misuse of the term slash - it’s been corrected. The question came from someone on Kickstarter and it was, I believe, mostly concerned with young people interacting with adult content - but I can absolutely see the ways in which it was insensitive.

With regard to the history and context: I can see why there is frustration about this. In putting together our Kickstarter copy we felt we had a limited amount of time and space to get people’s attention and we chose the route we did to try to communicate as clearly as possible to as many people as possible.

With regard to female fans: Putting them down couldn’t be further from my\our intentions. Aside from the slash issue where in our language can we rectify this issue?

With regard to the money: We’re a very small enthusiast team working on rent+ramen type money. We’re not using any pre-existing MUD/MUSH code - we’re raising the money to bring a functioning game to the audience who support us, and iterate from there.

I hope I’ve addressed the issues raised - I’m more than happy to keep up the conversation.

Re: Hello

[skywaterblue]

They won't get email notification unless you reply directly to their comment. I shall poke them for you.

Re: Hello

[simon_fox]

Thanks that's kind of you.

Re: Hello

[caltha]

I genuinely appreciate the fact that you're listening to us and trying to understand our concerns.

One example of a frustrating miscommunication here is that, although you acknowledging MU*ing history, it seems like you're still conflating it with the very earliest interactive fiction games, rather than where it is now. When I speak about MU*ing I'm not talking about GO NORTH, GET LAMP, I'm talking about this, which is an excerpt from an RPI game with a modified CircleMUD codebase. The only editing I've done is removing my input strings and some unrelated stats clutter I was looking at between posts:

Andraste slows down to a halt as her name is spoken, and she looks back to face Cassan. Although there is a moment of confusion on her features, the smile soon returns as she settles her soft brown eyes on Camlin and nods once to assume a friendly greeting.

Cassan glances sidelong to Camlin with a fast quirk of a reassuring smile, and then steps carefully around the container of tools to come a few steps nearer Andraste. "I apologize, for the other day," he tells her, the words carefully formal but his tone easing a little from the cautious precision of before. "I have something for you, if you'll accept it," he adds, and glances briefly past her to the door, his pale eyebrows raising in question, although he makes no move to step out if she doesn't lead first.

You focus your thoughts: 'At least you didn't chase her when she ran. Although it's not as if you didn't -try-. Gods, Cassan, a person is allowed to find you awkward and unlikeable, it isn't as though they'd be -wrong-.'

As Cassan moves to speak with Andraste, Camlin puts the pair of tongs he had been treasuring back into their container. Stepping off to the side, he takes a few steps towards the exit. "It was good to meet you, Cassan. I think I should leave you to your duties for now, though. With luck we'll meet again soon to discuss the trade."

Startled, Cassan turns his head to Camlin, looking conflicted for a moment. "I -- yes," he says, glancing back to Andraste. "It was good to meet you as well," he tells Camlin, "And, safe travels, until then." His attention fixing fully on Camlin, he offers the man a genuine, if lopsided smile, nodding a good-natured farewell to him before shifting his gaze back to Andraste.

You focus your thoughts: 'Fox, or bird? Or both? And why does it matter, Cassan?'

A freckled young celt male puts a pair of tongs in a container of tools.

Andraste blinks at Cassan as she watches his approach and the confusion returns at his apology. She tilts her head to one side and arches a single brow up in response before following his gaze over her shoulder to the doorway. A slow, cautious nod is granted to him before she shifts her attention to Camlin and watches his leave.

Camlin starts to walk out.

Camlin walks out.

A tall, brown-eyed female looks at you.

Watching Camlin's exit, Cassan shakes his head briefly at himself before turning fully back to Andraste. "When you ran," he says, rather abruptly, and then offers her an embarrassed half-smile. "For whatever I did which warranted it," he says, and lifts his right hand briefly to the same shoulder, shifting the weight of the sling before dropping his hand again and rocking his weight lightly back onto his heel.

When Andraste turns back to face Cassan, her doe-like eyes widen from the recollection. Taking a single half-step back, she dips her chin and displays a soft smile before drawing a hand up in a dismissive gesture and shaking her head. When her gaze does return to Cassan, the smile has evolved to a much brighter, joyful expression.

Cassan laughs softly at Andraste's expression, openly relieved, and ducks his head briefly. After the space of a breath he wets his bottom lip, nodding to himself, and looks back up at Andraste, his green-blue eyes bright and his face a little red with good-natured embarrassment. "Right," he says, letting out another breath of laughter, and drops his right shoulder to draw his hefty leather rucksack around to his side. "I didn't actually make this in apology for that," he admits, digging through the bag's contents. "I just, it felt like something you should have."

You get a brightly woven tapestry belt from a hefty leather rucksack.

Cassan offers the brightly woven tapestry belt out to Andraste, adding self-consciously, "You don't need to wear it. It's just yours, if you'd like it."

I picked this mostly because I had the log handy, it had multiple players, there were a few object/door interactions, and it's pretty innocuous. Cassan is my character, which is why you get to see his, uh, self-deprecatory internal commentary.

CircleMUD allows for actions formatted essentially in paragraph form -- there are markers to indicate character names, and with this codebase simply enclosing text within quotation marks will mark it as dialogue, changing the color and allowing for known/unknown language parsing.

I think for us to truly understand how The Written World would be different from MU*ing -- and from what you say I see that you do think of it as truly different -- we need to each trust that we're talking about the same thing. If MUD/MUSH/whatever players feel like you don't actually understand what MU*ing looks like now, we're going to have an extremely hard time believing that your concept is actually different. When you mention GO NORTH, GET LAMP, even if you're doing it a bit hyperbolically, it's hard not to get the impression that even though you aware of MUSHes and IF, you don't actually know what we're talking about, and about the actual, current state of MU*ing today.

I think that this is where a good amount of the feeling of being disrespected comes from -- your team keeps insisting that "Hey guys, we have something brand new over here!", but whenever it's pointed out that similar things already exist, there's sort of an awkward shift to "Well yes but ours is different somehow and brand new! We can't explain how, except that it does this awesome thing which is different," and then we point out that we already have similar features/functionality, and the cycle goes 'round.

I understand that this must be frustrating for you, and I commend you for handling it calmly and making a good faith effort to understand where the harm is coming from. I am, obviously, an enormous fan of roleplaying and text games, but I'm still struggling to understand what makes The Written World so different from the labors of love fans and geeks have created, revised, and improved over the last three decades.

With regards to the gender issues, I'll defer back to skywaterblue, who makes a much more elegant presentation of her argument than I could. I'll only add that there has been an enormous history in geeky female fan circles where creative labors of love are appropriated by outsiders who are almost universally male, who claim to have created something completely new, and who refuse to see or acknowledge the pre-existing media which is there. See also: FanLib and fanfiction, and machinima/mash-ups and fan vidding. That second article includes a great quote from Francesca Coppa, one of the Board of Directors for the Organization for Transformative Works:

If you’re going to start documenting subcultures that have been doing interesting things in the world of film and video, vidders deserve a place at the table. The stereotypically female desire to keep our heads down should not keep us out of the history books.

That’s what happened with the novel. There were women who wrote novels in the 18th century, and then the novel “went professional” and the men came. Now people will tell you that the first novel was by Henry Fielding or Samuel Richardson. This whole women’s culture that came before that got written out and later had to be recuperated by feminists. And I feel that I would rather not die out and have to be recuperated by feminists. Maybe some of us could actually articulate ourselves right now and never be lost in the first place.

I was going to academic conferences about remix culture and hearing people say, “Since the dawn of YouTube…” Or the Machinima guys: Very early on, they were saying, “Hey, we have this history. We’ve been doing this since 1996.” I think it’s great that the Machinima guys have been making their stuff since 1996, but I thought, “Hey, we’ve been doing this since 1975. And nobody even knows we exist!”

Re: Hello

[skywaterblue]

When you mention GO NORTH, GET LAMP, even if you're doing it a bit hyperbolically, it's hard not to get the impression that even though you aware of MUSHes and IF, you don't actually know what we're talking about, and about the actual, current state of MU*ing today.

Right, it all comes across a bit as if a British tourist got off a plane at JFK and said to the first American he saw, 'how about that President Reagan, hmm?' Directional and object-related commands are so rarely used in modern MUSH practice.

With regards to the gender issues, I'll defer back to skywaterblue, who makes a much more elegant presentation of her argument than I could.

I'd argue that you've done a great service by citing the work I am so sloppily referencing. If he doesn't understand MU*ing as it exists now, he's almost certainly not up to date on current politics and academics in fandom.

I'll add that the Pern MU* I administrate at, Second Pass has an extensive log list you can read to see what roleplay on a TinyMUSH tends to resemble these days. simon_fox, you're welcome to join us and I can show you around - the address is riverdark.net port: 1234. I recommend using a client rather than logging in via raw Telnet. SimpleMU is best for PC, and Atlantis is best for Mac.

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